本田ST1300摩托發現問題 高速行駛可能劇烈擺動~

[kib78256]

這是幾年前的新聞~不知跟各位大大跑西濱遇到的問題有無關係~小弟我也是騎STX~有空可以來三重交流一下~^^~


據英國廣播公司(BBC)報道，英國警察正準備全面回收全英警察配備使用的摩托車本田ST1300。此前，一名驗屍官在一次死因調查中發現，本田ST1300摩托車在高速行駛時易出危險，「嚴重威脅」車手安全。
　　高速行駛莫名失控
　　英國驗屍官——埃德雷博士是在對默西塞德郡警員史瑞夫死因進行調查時發現這一問題的。2005年9月，38歲的史瑞夫駕駛本田ST1300摩托車沿高速公路進行訓練，摩托車在時速110英里左右時突然失控，結果導致他和一輛卡車相撞後喪生，據他的同事反映，史瑞夫是一名經驗豐富的老騎手。
　　埃德雷博士在調查中發現，本田ST1300摩托車在高速行駛時會出現劇烈擺動，並最終導致車身失控，而且這種被業界稱為「高速擺動」的現象在本田ST1300摩托車上並非偶發。
　　在一次試驗中，車身的擺動把試驗車手拋下了車，導致其腿部和雙腕骨折。
　　一名參與檢測的蘭開夏警官威爾遜說，這種本田車的擺動是他「職業生涯中所見最嚴重的」。
　　在史瑞夫死亡案件調查中，本田公司的新聞發言人表示，安全至關重要，並表示將繼續就這次調查發現的問題和警方溝通。

[Allen888]

可以裝防甩頭阿~
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[javamanh]

[Allen888]

[傳說中的小葛]

報告大大

這篇在之前大家有討論過

我個人騎乘STX經驗分享
本身STX車款較於大型
車身也具被導流設計

在於騎乘時所產生的不穩定狀態
1.檔位太高
2.有裝後箱
3.風鏡未降最低點

改善方法
1.將低檔位
2.拆掉後箱
3.或後箱裝尾翼/具導流效果,降低車身亂流產生
4.風鏡降至最低點/風鏡內有2個鎖點.原廠來都是所在下面最低點
5.裝方向燈護條/具導流效果,降低車身亂流產生
6.裝測邊引擎護條/具導流效果,降低車身亂流產生

以上是我個人經驗

請大大參考
_________________
喜歡人性,科技,快感的滋味
就是我....傳說中的小葛

[luther163]

High speed Wobble, 這個的影響, 可以在國外說明的 ST Club 找得到.

解決的方法, 大至上跟小葛說的一樣. 我也在St Club 問過, 大多是回答的Solution 也是跟小葛一樣. 多多少少都有改善.

說真的, 我有Top box + rear fin, 140 km 還ok. 不會晃. 當然還有護條等.

其它 Issues 還需要小葛幫幫忙.


1. Tire wear on the left front
2. Pulling to the right
3. Decel wobble
4. High speed wobble

以下是它網的FAQ

UPDATED 08/13/07



Merseyside Police has taken some of its motorcycles off the road after one of its officers was killed in a crash.

Monday, 21 November 2005, 16:35 GMT - Pc David Shreeve, 38, was on a motorcycle training course when his bike collided with a lorry on the M58 in Skelmersdale, Lancashire. The Honda ST1300 motorcycle has been temporarily withdrawn while the crash investigation is carried out. Acting Assistant Chief Constable Simon Byrne said the withdrawal was a "precaution". He added: "The safety of our officers is paramount and this decision has been made while a full investigation is carried out by Lancashire Police into the events leading up to the tragic death of Constable Shreeve. "The position will be reviewed once we have further information from the investigation." In the meantime, members of the public should be reassured that we have sufficient vehicles to provide a full operational service." Pc Shreeve, who joined Merseyside Police in 1987, leaves a wife, a two-year-old son and a daughter, five. He lived in Wirral and was posted to the traffic division in March 1994 where he trained as a family liaison officer three years ago. He regularly supported victims of serious and fatal road traffic collisions. ....





Wed-July-19 2006, PC Allan Shaw (33) from the GMP was also killed in an accident involving a ST1300P. He also was married with a young family.



Before we go any further, thank you Allan and David for your service to your community. My thoughts and prayers are with your surviving family and friends.....



Several European Police departments have grounded the Honda ST1300P due to instability and crashes with injuries at high speeds. Holland (the Federal Police) had a bad experience on an early version where the Dutch motors officer crashed the bike at 100+ mph when an uncontrollable front end wobble. I have also read that some departments in England have grounded the motor due to the same problem. That would explain the electronic governed speed on the US version. According to articles written on the subject, "Riders of the 2002 model reported a severe wobble at speeds above 160 km/h (100 mph), a problem which Honda considered serious enough to halt production of 2003s. The problem was eventually solved, the 2002s were recalled for a replacement of some chassis parts and the fix was applied to early 2003s. Other than the wobble and some complaints about the amount of heat reaching the rider at high temperatures, owners with 80,000 km (about 50,000 miles) on their ST1300s have reported the bike to be solid and reliable." But is it solved or not? I do not know out what production year of ST1300 the latest crashed have occurred on. One assumes that the training given to a motors officer is extraordinary, compared to the average civilian rider's experiences.

So if LEOs are crashing ST1300s, are the rest of us riding around on a time bomb? It would be nice to have an definitive answer on this one wouldn't it? Well I am not sure I have one so what I will do is post information regarding this as I find it. This information will be taken form whatever sources I can find, so you will need to make a determination as to it's usefulness in your situation. Honda claims the issue was addressed and resolved before the 2003 ST1300 rolled to dealers. However with the above accident being 12 NOV 2005, is the danger still out there? I think there are several things at play here and I hope to shed light on this subject.



As you read down through this page there are numerous references to suspensions setup. Most people suggest that you crank up the preload on the rear shock to accomplish similar results with weight distribution. But the question is can you resolve the issue if you are experiencing it? It may be as simple as a compromise between how the bike handles at low speed.





When you talk about the rear shock being to soft, I take it you are talking about the rear spring. When you adjust the preload (spring preload ) you are also adjusting the height of the bike at the rear. The more preload you add, the higher the rear, the lesser fork angle and the reverse if you soften the preload. The spring carries the weight of the bike and rider, the shock ( shock absorber - damper ) dampens or reduces spring oscillations. I have found that when you lessen the fork angle, (trail -caster etc), you end up with a twitchy bike so when you "throttle off", the front of the bike drops and wobbles start to set in. If you can find the thread which was entered about bike setup to find an equilibrium read it. It makes total sense. I setup my bike using his formula, it took me a bit of time but I ended up with an excellent setup on my bike. It is know stable at speed, does not buffet with oncoming trucks or side winds, neutral handling and rides straight with no hands on the bike. I have only had it up to 180KM/H so far and no sign of any problems.



....So we see the obvious need to set the suspension up and to meet the riders needs and to compensate for the riders weight and height.



UK Police equipped ST1300s are having stability issues at speed. These bikes are very heavily loaded, much more so than a 'packed for touring' civil version. This issue was not present on the older ST1100 police bikes, nor on the less loaded civil ST1300. The criticism of the UK variety of the police ST1300 should not be seen as an issue for the civil versions. The wide-spread reporting of instability of UK ST1300-Ps by their operators lends credence to the allegations that the fatal accident suffered by an experienced Class-1 police motorcyclist may have been as a result of such instability. One of the reasons many UK forces moved away from BMWs was a similar instability issue with those machines......



What did that say?..........One of the reasons many UK forces moved away from BMWs was a similar instability issue..... hummmm interesting.... so then the BMW's were flawed as well? And yes, officers died on BMWs as well. BMW denied any design issues and passed the buck back to the local levels. I have heard that even Harley's with a fork mounted windshield can have a high speed wobble. I know My Kaw Nomad, with a 4" taller, 2" wider windshield and larger than factory spec lowers, had stability issues at higher speed and it was an 800lb+ bike.

One would think that Motors training would be where you learn to find that envelope of 110% performance out of a machine, which to me, is right up to, just before, the point where the bike fails to perform. Wouldn't this be learning the limitations of the bike? Don't we all do that in our own way? Is it that the bike's design capabilities can be exceeded before the point where one's own mind says, "we have reached the point-of-no-return, slow down?" What I want to know is under what conditions these events have occurred. Only while in training? High speed chases? What were the road conditions? I don't know if we will ever have a concrete answer from the Police investigations or not as it may never be released to the general populous but instead hushed up by lawyers and manufacturers.



Anyway, interesting reading. Lets add on to it...





I personally have a E52 - MAXIA - MONOKEY® Givi Trunk on the back and as you could imagine, you will be more susceptible to crosswinds with this high mount trunk so watch your speed on windy days. In fact, I notice that with the trunk on, the bike gets really jittery at interstate speeds and this is amplified around trucks and other less aerodynamic vehicles. However the bright side is, if you but a T-BAG or some other sort of bag behind you, (no, this wasn't an attempt at humor, but if it made you laugh, then yes I planned it that way), to fill the gap between you and the trunk, stability is suppose to improve. If you take the trunk off the bike, handling improves dramatically and stability in greatly enhanced in higher speed settings.



I have had my ST1300 up to a higher speed , (need to put that SpeedoHealer on, I read 9% high), with the trunk on the rear, in a crosswind, not weaving through traffic. At these speeds I was impressed by the way the turbulence wanted to control the front end of the bike. This bike wants to lean into the crosswind where my cruiser would simply move in the opposite direction away from the direction of the crosswind. That tells me the design of the front end plastic is playing a key roll in the dynamics of air disbursal. Anyway, I wouldn't dare drive aggressively and weave through traffic under those conditions. But, LEOs don't really have a choice on when to ride under emergency conditions. It just happens and boom, your running emergency.



Others have said that one reason the UK is dumping the ST1300P is because of their implementation of emergency equipment which is more or less a small but reasonably sized electric sign. Unfortunately this sign began to act like a spoiler on the back of a race car pushing the back end down and lightening the front wheel. Perhaps a wing on the front is needed? Other people reported issues with the single beacon pole on the rear right side of the bike being a wobble inducing issue. Not good at high speed. Add in the turbulence of high speed driving and weaving though traffic? Sounds like my trunk doesn't it? What do you think?

[javamanh]

[javamanh]

[javamanh]

關於晃動個人有另一點懷疑：
是否連續行駛時車體的高溫，
造成某個零件軟化？

我會有此懷疑是在11/1有次走西濱，
騎下平面道路在等紅燈時，
我突發奇想，
用力去擺動把手兩三回並突然停止，
此時還能感受到車體的"餘震"(晃動)！
此現象後來冷車時再家中測試，
雖仍有餘震但卻不如當時的強烈！
(抱歉，11/1到現在我就沒騎車了)

有人說是正常的，
但我當時感受到的餘震，
就蠻像高速行駛晃動要發生前的感覺！
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相信你的直覺，順從你的渴望

[寶健]

[javamanh]

[窮機車店老闆]

會不會跟引擎運轉有關係.
像這種縱向的曲軸很容易會有左右的晃動.
我之前有騎過舊的水平對臥的bmw.只要大灌油門車子就會晃一邊.
不知道現在的新車會不會.
橫向曲軸因為活塞作用是前後上下所以不會有車體左右晃的情形.
_________________
置板凳,看好戲.

[龜爬組]

我以前騎stx在台三線忘了幾公里處,有一段大直路上,車速約130公里左右,發生過一次車身、龍頭嚴重抖動,嚇出一身冷汗 ,回車行檢查輪胎、胎壓、及三角台均無異狀,害我以為是靈異事件,後來每次經過該路段,我都注意放慢速度~~~

[luther163]

[javamanh]